Another question: If they truly wanted to trade a 36 year old player, why would they want to risk getting him injured in meaningless preseason games, especially when his trade value is based on his long-established abilities and not his performance in a preseason game or two?
@ Tim: Valid point, though I'd note that he's the only player on either team (from the rosters I've seen) that will be playing in both games. Surely there are others trying to make their individual cases and get their timing down.
@ Scott: Valid point.
@ LACF: Valid point, though I'd think that no one is going to trade for him until they have seen that he is fully recovered from the injury and surgery, so he has to play before he can be moved.
Maybe Nyls went to Gabby and said I need to get in game shape, play me tonight. And as la caps fan noted, given the # of players injured in preseason, probably the last thing management would do if they were looking to move him is play him in back-to-back games.
Agree, one can look at it several ways, but it does add fuel to continue the speculation.
FWIW, based on the possible line-up I saw posted on the Canes site, a number of the younger prospects (Bayda, Sutter, Bowman, and Helminen) are playing again; plus LaCouture, a FA trying to earn a contract.
Hey, I'm just askin' questions (and I do believe that if they were shopping him, it'd be more important to show that he's healthy than that he can produce - people know what he can do when healthy; people don't, however, know that he is healthy, and playing in back-to-backs shows that he is).
If I was a real conspiracy theorist, I'd probably add in a note that if the Caps were to move Nylander, they could get Flash and Fehr into the lineup (tough to see how they do so without a move), which would probably mean they'd move Laich back center. Hey, look who's centering the top line tonight...
It's hard to believe but I think it's true. This combined with the Mackenzie report makes it very reasonable to suspect that Nyls is being passively shopped. I think trading him would be a major mistake.
Boy, won't all the conspiracy theorists be disappointed if Nyls show up on opening night in a Caps uniform.
Probably not - the one thing I think most people who think he's going to be traded and most who don't think he's going to be traded agree on is that he shouldn't be traded.
I gaah-ROAN-tee he ain't getting traded now. Only scenario I find plausible is if come January he ain't getting the minutes and waives his no-trade, but still that's a reach.
I would rather trade Fedorov. I've argued Nyls vs Feds before, and I hope neither of them goes anywhere, but ugh. This is the wrong direction, unless he wants the time.
This difference between playing Clark and Nylander both nights is the certainty that Nylander is fully recovered from his injury while Clark is carefully testing his groin.
The Caps don't need to dump his salary or add youth to the system so there is no logic in trading him unless he wore out his welcome with the management.
Last night they play him with Kozlov and Flash. Flash needs to prove he can hang in order to secure a roster spot, so they put him in the best possibly situation out there to see if he can hang. Maybe it's the same with Borque tonight, playing with Nylander and Clark.
lets not get defensive jp, i think as fan of this team youre doing a disservice by continuing the rumors. a lot of people read your blog, and i think youre reaching here. with that said, i agree the last comment was slightly dickish and for that i apologize. I guess i would rather have this than no post at all, actually wait.... p.s. unlike tyler, i dont want anything up my ass, blown or otherwise.
I really don't think I'm rumor mongering here, though. I'm just throwing out facts that any reasonable observer would see as somewhat curious (Nylander is literally the only veteran who will play both nights) and letting people draw their own conclusions. I'm not saying he's going or he's not going. And, frankly, if it prompts Tarik or Corey or someone else to ask the question, "Hey, why did Nyls play both nights?" then I've done my 'job.'
I believe that my own personal views on the matter are well documented here, where I did note that "any potential suitors most likely want proof that Nylander's shoulder is 100% healthy, which means that any potential Nylander deal probably wouldn't happen until at least late-September..." and here we are in late September.
And I think you overestimate my influence if you think I'm doing anyone a disservice. Bob McKenzie gets more views in twenty seconds than I get in twenty days, I'd wager.
well said, but dont underestimate yourself. I guess i just want to see all of this go away very quickly, so seeing this makes me cringe. I was surprised when i saw the lineups as well, but when you are just commenting and not blogging for yourself, the heart to logic ratio doesnt need to be nearly as balanced. keep up the good 'work'
Thanks, J, and I hope it goes away too, but as long as it's here, I'll be writing about it.
I do think that it'll subside once the season starts and the roster is locked in (at least for a while), so we've got yet another reason to look forward to the start of the season.
>>>" Tarik says Nylander's wingers look like Bourque and Clark. I don't think that's going to be a line for the Caps."
However, Fleischmann-Nylander-Clark has been a line throughout training camp. And while Clark didn't play in last night's game, Fleischmann did, and it was with Nylander.
I think the back-to-back showing of Nylander is more consistent with shopping him than with other reasons.
To me, trading Nylander is risky, but potentially the right move, considering that his contract might eventually cost us Backstrom or Semin. I think I'd agree to give up having a loaded team this year in order to reduce that possibility.
So if Nylander gets traded, I'd be worried, but optimistic. Close to 5M in cap space is no joke.
I'm with tim and B.Orr on this one. My guess is Nyls is itching to play, BECAUSE he's healthy, and cripes, who doesn't want to play right now?
Re Nyls: The NTC is the dealbreaker here; I think GMGM sees him as part of the near term personnel plan to win a Cup. It'd be nice to get some return on this investment before we cut bait here. Like everyone and their brother has said, when he is healthy he can be one of the top tier (not elite, but pretty close) pivots in the NHL. The return would have to be very significant in terms of picks and cheap young talent, and there just aren't that many teams that can match up with us, given age, inj. history, cap hit, etc.
I don't discount the idea that the Caps are passively shopping him, though. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked if they are passively shopping several names this week and next. They still have a cap issue to resolve in three weeks; lots of ways to skin that cat...
I don't know if JP had anything to do with it, but Tarik did ask the question. It's up on his blog now. It's the trying to reintegrate him into the lineup answer. The reason they didn't do the same with Clark is because of the traveling. If their flight was late for some reason, he wouldn't have the time he needs to stretch before the game.
It is curious, and I too am of the "we need to keep Nylander" mindset. As someone else noted, Nylander may waive his NTC if he doesn't get his minutes, but then again a 36 year old who only has to skate 15 minutes a night but gets show cased on the PP could extend his career by NOT having to go 18-20 minutes as a top line guy. Nylander might be perfecly comfortable with third line status.
To me, trading Nylander is risky, but potentially the right move, considering that his contract might eventually cost us Backstrom or Semin.
I think that's doubtful given that the expiration of Fedorov's and Kozlov's contract will give the team 6.5 million in cap space to work with after this season (plus the cap will probably continue to rise).
A lot of these players like to see some action prior to the regular season starting. Nyls has not played competitively in almost a year. He has played very little in Gabby's system. I would not look too much into it.
How many 36-year-olds who aren't being actively (or passively) shopped play in preseason games on back-to-back nights?
45 comments:
What's wrong with giving an injured player the opportunity to get back into the flow of things?
He's also probably requesting a chance to fight for the second line spot.
I like to think that Gabby is trying to figure out what winger pairs create the best chemistry with Nyls.
Another question: If they truly wanted to trade a 36 year old player, why would they want to risk getting him injured in meaningless preseason games, especially when his trade value is based on his long-established abilities and not his performance in a preseason game or two?
at least 1
@ Tim: Valid point, though I'd note that he's the only player on either team (from the rosters I've seen) that will be playing in both games. Surely there are others trying to make their individual cases and get their timing down.
@ Scott: Valid point.
@ LACF: Valid point, though I'd think that no one is going to trade for him until they have seen that he is fully recovered from the injury and surgery, so he has to play before he can be moved.
Maybe Nyls went to Gabby and said I need to get in game shape, play me tonight. And as la caps fan noted, given the # of players injured in preseason, probably the last thing management would do if they were looking to move him is play him in back-to-back games.
I agree with Tim and Scott. The guy's been away from the mix for a long time, like Clark, and need to be re-integrated.
Agree, one can look at it several ways, but it does add fuel to continue the speculation.
FWIW, based on the possible line-up I saw posted on the Canes site, a number of the younger prospects (Bayda, Sutter, Bowman, and Helminen) are playing again; plus LaCouture, a FA trying to earn a contract.
http://hurricanes.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=383374
To Scott's point: Tarik says Nylander's wingers look like Bourque and Clark. I don't think that's going to be a line for the Caps.
It is unusual to see Nylander in the lineup again, especially when Fedorov hasn't been in yet.
But considering Nylander's age, and that he has two more seasons at $4.875 cap hit, it's hard to imagine there's interest in him.
Maybe the Caps want to test Nyls conditioning? Maybe they wanted to play another NHL caliber center? Who knows, there's a lot of possibilities.
Hey, I'm just askin' questions (and I do believe that if they were shopping him, it'd be more important to show that he's healthy than that he can produce - people know what he can do when healthy; people don't, however, know that he is healthy, and playing in back-to-backs shows that he is).
If I was a real conspiracy theorist, I'd probably add in a note that if the Caps were to move Nylander, they could get Flash and Fehr into the lineup (tough to see how they do so without a move), which would probably mean they'd move Laich back center. Hey, look who's centering the top line tonight...
Just kidding.
Sorta.
It's hard to believe but I think it's true. This combined with the Mackenzie report makes it very reasonable to suspect that Nyls is being passively shopped. I think trading him would be a major mistake.
I think trading him would be a major mistake.
I couldn't agree more.
Boy, won't all the conspiracy theorists be disappointed if Nyls show up on opening night in a Caps uniform.
Btw, Pepper - if Nylander, like Clark, needs to be re-integrated into the mix, why isn't Clark playing in both games?
Tinfoil hats, people, tinfoil hats!
Boy, won't all the conspiracy theorists be disappointed if Nyls show up on opening night in a Caps uniform.
Probably not - the one thing I think most people who think he's going to be traded and most who don't think he's going to be traded agree on is that he shouldn't be traded.
"Btw, Pepper - if Nylander, like Clark, needs to be re-integrated into the mix, why isn't Clark playing in both games?"
I'd think Clark's injury is more likely to be stressed by playing back to back games.
-d
I gaah-ROAN-tee he ain't getting traded now. Only scenario I find plausible is if come January he ain't getting the minutes and waives his no-trade, but still that's a reach.
I still believe we're shopping him but it's fruitless. Nobody wants his contract and he won't waive his no-trade.
I would rather trade Fedorov. I've argued Nyls vs Feds before, and I hope neither of them goes anywhere, but ugh. This is the wrong direction, unless he wants the time.
This difference between playing Clark and Nylander both nights is the certainty that Nylander is fully recovered from his injury while Clark is carefully testing his groin.
The Caps don't need to dump his salary or add youth to the system so there is no logic in trading him unless he wore out his welcome with the management.
The chances of the Caps trading Feds are the same as the chances of Faux making a good point without using the first-person singular.
I don't think I'd like to trade either of them. But if you told me to trade one, it'd be Fedorov.
thanks for raking the muck jp
I'm just asking questions, Jesus. If you want smoke blown up your ass, there are probably blogs that'll provide that service too.
Last night they play him with Kozlov and Flash. Flash needs to prove he can hang in order to secure a roster spot, so they put him in the best possibly situation out there to see if he can hang. Maybe it's the same with Borque tonight, playing with Nylander and Clark.
lets not get defensive jp, i think as fan of this team youre doing a disservice by continuing the rumors. a lot of people read your blog, and i think youre reaching here. with that said, i agree the last comment was slightly dickish and for that i apologize. I guess i would rather have this than no post at all, actually wait....
p.s. unlike tyler, i dont want anything up my ass, blown or otherwise.
last one was me
Maybe it's just the Caps who want to see if he's healthy?
Just hoping he's not traded, unless it's for a quality physical defenseman.
Fair enough, Jesus.
I really don't think I'm rumor mongering here, though. I'm just throwing out facts that any reasonable observer would see as somewhat curious (Nylander is literally the only veteran who will play both nights) and letting people draw their own conclusions. I'm not saying he's going or he's not going. And, frankly, if it prompts Tarik or Corey or someone else to ask the question, "Hey, why did Nyls play both nights?" then I've done my 'job.'
I believe that my own personal views on the matter are well documented here, where I did note that "any potential suitors most likely want proof that Nylander's shoulder is 100% healthy, which means that any potential Nylander deal probably wouldn't happen until at least late-September..." and here we are in late September.
And I think you overestimate my influence if you think I'm doing anyone a disservice. Bob McKenzie gets more views in twenty seconds than I get in twenty days, I'd wager.
well said, but dont underestimate yourself. I guess i just want to see all of this go away very quickly, so seeing this makes me cringe. I was surprised when i saw the lineups as well, but when you are just commenting and not blogging for yourself, the heart to logic ratio doesnt need to be nearly as balanced. keep up the good 'work'
oh yea, and it hurts more when it comes from one of your own
oh yea, and it hurts more when it comes from one of your own
Thanks, J, and I hope it goes away too, but as long as it's here, I'll be writing about it.
I do think that it'll subside once the season starts and the roster is locked in (at least for a while), so we've got yet another reason to look forward to the start of the season.
fair enough and amen to that, looking forward to season tickets for the first time. excited beyond belief
>>>" Tarik says Nylander's wingers look like Bourque and Clark. I don't think that's going to be a line for the Caps."
However, Fleischmann-Nylander-Clark has been a line throughout training camp. And while Clark didn't play in last night's game, Fleischmann did, and it was with Nylander.
What 36 year old center coming off of a seventh month lay off doesn't play in back to back preseason games?
2 girls, 1 cup! Woo hoo!
I think the back-to-back showing of Nylander is more consistent with shopping him than with other reasons.
To me, trading Nylander is risky, but potentially the right move, considering that his contract might eventually cost us Backstrom or Semin. I think I'd agree to give up having a loaded team this year in order to reduce that possibility.
So if Nylander gets traded, I'd be worried, but optimistic. Close to 5M in cap space is no joke.
I'm with tim and B.Orr on this one. My guess is Nyls is itching to play, BECAUSE he's healthy, and cripes, who doesn't want to play right now?
Re Nyls: The NTC is the dealbreaker here; I think GMGM sees him as part of the near term personnel plan to win a Cup. It'd be nice to get some return on this investment before we cut bait here. Like everyone and their brother has said, when he is healthy he can be one of the top tier (not elite, but pretty close) pivots in the NHL. The return would have to be very significant in terms of picks and cheap young talent, and there just aren't that many teams that can match up with us, given age, inj. history, cap hit, etc.
I don't discount the idea that the Caps are passively shopping him, though. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked if they are passively shopping several names this week and next. They still have a cap issue to resolve in three weeks; lots of ways to skin that cat...
Can we all just be fans of the uniforms? No more analysis or independent thinking, please. Just rosters and stats. k thx bye
I don't know if JP had anything to do with it, but Tarik did ask the question. It's up on his blog now. It's the trying to reintegrate him into the lineup answer. The reason they didn't do the same with Clark is because of the traveling. If their flight was late for some reason, he wouldn't have the time he needs to stretch before the game.
you paraphrase so well, tyler, right on the money
It is curious, and I too am of the "we need to keep Nylander" mindset. As someone else noted, Nylander may waive his NTC if he doesn't get his minutes, but then again a 36 year old who only has to skate 15 minutes a night but gets show cased on the PP could extend his career by NOT having to go 18-20 minutes as a top line guy. Nylander might be perfecly comfortable with third line status.
To me, trading Nylander is risky, but potentially the right move, considering that his contract might eventually cost us Backstrom or Semin.
I think that's doubtful given that the expiration of Fedorov's and Kozlov's contract will give the team 6.5 million in cap space to work with after this season (plus the cap will probably continue to rise).
A lot of these players like to see some action prior to the regular season starting. Nyls has not played competitively in almost a year. He has played very little in Gabby's system. I would not look too much into it.
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